LEILA FADEL, HOST:
For more on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech at the U.N., I'm joined now by Thomas Nides. He served as U.S. ambassador to Israel from 2021 to 2023. Ambassador, good morning and welcome to the program.
THOMAS NIDES: Thank you for having me.
FADEL: So diplomats streaming out of Netanyahu's speech in protest, hundreds of demonstrators outside saying he wasn't welcome. What did that tell you about attitudes towards Netanyahu on this global stage and in the United States?
NIDES: Listen. It bums me out. Listen, I'm a - you know, as you know, I care deeply about the state of Israel. I obviously served there. I - you know, I'm proudly supportive of Israel, and I love the country. And it bums me out. I mean, the idea that, you know, these countries walk out - that's happened before. But I - obviously it's a much more extreme time right now. And I yearn for the time that we had, you know, just a few years ago. Think the last one was Prime Minister Lapid who gave a, you know, again, quote, normal speech. We are not, obviously, living in a normal time. But I want to get back to what Israel is - a democratic state - and for people to understand the beauty of the country. We are not there right now, and that speech certainly didn't reflect that.
FADEL: Well, tell me more about that when you say - back to the time of a normal speech. What did you make of Netanyahu's tone and his remarks?
NIDES: Listen. I mean, you know, there's a lot of theater. I mean, I am - listen. Again, you know, Israel is suffering. It's gone through the - October 7, the worst crisis since the Holocaust. They've been attacked by Iran. They've - attacked by Hezbollah and the Houthis. So I - to be clear, a lot of things can be true at the same time. That said, I think the tone and the - some of the theater doesn't help. I think his tone doesn't help.
I think we are in a situation where we need for people to understand that Israel is not perfect, without question. It has been attacked, without question. Their - Israel's behavior, obviously, in Gaza has been criticized, and in many cases justifiably. But I still believe in this country called Israel. I still believe that we need to be in a place where the American people understand what Israel is going through but, more importantly, that Israel needs to understand the attitudes of Americans right now, which is not good. And this is not just Democrats. It's also Republicans. And, you know, we've gained (ph) - now we got to get back to - we got to get over these elections because there is a lot of electioneering going on as well at the same time.
FADEL: Let me ask you about that. I mean, do you agree with what it sounds like many Israelis are thinking - that this was mostly a campaign speech for a domestic audience?
NIDES: Listen. You know, we're living in America here. We're about ready to go through the midterms. Yeah, it's a campaign speech. It's a very close election in Israel. And he's playing to a domestic audience, you know? If you look at the polls, yeah. You know, he - neither he nor the opposition are at 61. I think both of them are in the...
FADEL: Yeah. It's quite neck and neck.
NIDES: It's a very close election. He is trying to drive his turnout out. This is a red-meat speech to get his voters to come out. But, you know, with every election speech, you know, people do listen to it in different ways. And certainly for the domestic U.S. audience, the - I refer to the diaspora community - you know, I think people didn't particularly enjoy the speech.
FADEL: Netanyahu didn't meet with President Trump during his short visit to the U.N., and that's a lot of - where a lot of the work gets done. Does that signify something - a widening rift between?
NIDES: No. I don't think - I - listen. I think the Trump administration certainly has been supportive of the prime minister. I don't know if it's a - I - is a - is symbolic of what? I'm not sure of that. I - listen. At the end of the day, the prime minister had one goal. He had a goal to come to the U.N., to do a defiant speech, to send a message to his domestic audience that it's going to be tough. And listen. Again, we've got to get through these elections. I - you know, it's a democratic country. It has - people get to vote. It's not this...
FADEL: Yeah.
NIDES: There's - no one knows how this is going to happen. But I yearn. I yearn in my heart to get us back to some level of normalcy. You know, you talked about settler violence. I don't downplay settler violence. It's obscene. It needs to be ended. The Israeli government needs to do the things it needs to do. We need to do a better job in the West Bank of providing people with the opportunities in the West Bank. And they need to begin rebuilding Gaza, which - you know, which they're trying to do - not Israel, but at least the United States. I give them credit for trying to rebuild and get this thing back to some level of normalcy, but we have a huge amount of work to do.
FADEL: I wonder if you think that this speech creates a situation where Israel feels even more isolated. Or does it help at all?
NIDES: No. I hope not. I - again, I'm trying to chalk this up to that we're close to an election. Again, Israel is - you know, they've got a lot of problems. They've got to - they're surrounded by people who don't want them to exist. So my hope is that we can get through this relatively quickly. We have a long way to go to repair the relationship with the United States and the - at least the population of the United States that cares.
FADEL: Thomas Nides is a former U.S. ambassador to Israel. Thank you for your time.
NIDES: I'm honored. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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