SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
The corner of the internet interested in wristwatches was the first to spot the new desktop clock. It appeared in recent photographs of President Trump at work in the Oval Office. The watch-watching websites Watches Of Espionage and Hodinkee were able to confirm this was a gift from the CEO of Rolex. Last week, Trump met with him and several Swiss business executives at the White House, where the Swiss newspaper Blick reported a different CEO gifted Trump an engraved gold bar. And today, the White House announced that tariffs on Swiss imports had been dropped from 39% to a more manageable 15%.
Now, it was the governments of Switzerland and the United States that hammered out this deal, not business leaders, but this is not the first time that foreign gifts to the U.S. president have lined up with foreign policy. And this felt like a good time to take stock of the trends that we have seen this year. Richard Painter is a law professor at the University of Minnesota and was former chief White House ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush. Welcome to the program.
RICHARD PAINTER: Well, thank you for having me.
DETROW: What did you make of the president of the United States being given a Rolex and a gold bar by executives who had a lot to gain from lower tariffs?
PAINTER: I certainly view this as inappropriate. It appears as if there's a quid pro quo of a gift from foreign interests to the president in return for a concession on tariffs, and once this precedent is set, we'll have other countries and industries offering the same. And this is a matter of grave concern for the United States. It's unconstitutional in the United States to - for the president or anyone else in a position of power to receive anything of value from a foreign government. That is unconstitutional. But if the gift is from a foreign corporation or a private interest, we - it's not technically prohibited under the emoluments clause of the Constitution. But it's still a very, very dangerous precedent to set that foreign interests can give gifts to the president and then get a concession on tariffs or anything else.
DETROW: There's also something we've seen with both Trump administrations that other presidents put guardrails around them. They followed norms. They followed accepted practices. And President Trump has just often made it clear he's not interested in following that. Is that an accurate way to frame it?
PAINTER: That is a very accurate way to frame it. And the president feels he has the wind at his back because the Supreme Court has ruled that a president can never be prosecuted for a criminal act within his core constitutional powers. And President Trump believes that just about everything is within his core constitutional powers. And we also have a Congress that won't do anything about this - that won't hold the president to account.
DETROW: What normally happens under standard procedure when an executive or another world leader gives the president of the United States an official gift? - especially an expensive gift, which I'm sure happens all the time, especially during a meeting talking about a policy change that could benefit that company or that country.
PAINTER: In the Bush White House, when I was the chief White House ethics lawyer, when gifts were given to the president, it was brought to my attention, and only in very, very rare circumstances did the president accept the gift. And the president would never accept a gift in his personal capacity from a foreign power in excess of that which has been authorized by Congress, and the maximum there now is $480. Anything else cannot be a gift to the president. Could be potentially a gift to the United States from the foreign country, like the French gave us the Statue of Liberty and so forth, but the president in his personal capacity, the maximum is $480.
DETROW: The Rolex clock in question, which I'm quite sure is over that threshold, was technically a gift to the American people. Does that matter to you? Is that a technical difference? Is that an important difference?
PAINTER: Well, technically, let's see where it ends up. Is it going to end up like the 747 airplane from Qatar, in the presidential library of Donald Trump, which will be a private organization? That's not a gift to the American people. And, quite frankly, we don't need a clock. That's not what the United States needs.
DETROW: What is your pitch to the most skeptical listener out there that these types of regulations and norms matter?
PAINTER: The integrity of our government matters. We have a government that spends a trillion dollars on defense alone, on our military. This is a government which we have the right to expect to serve the interests of the United States and its citizens. And it's really to put America first, not to simply repeat the America First slogan and then turn around and have foreign or economic policy influenced by the private financial interests of those who have power.
DETROW: That was Richard Painter, law professor at the University of Minnesota and the former chief White House ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush. Thank you so much for talking to us.
PAINTER: Well, thank you. Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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